Placing ID file converts 100% black (K) to CMYK (4-color black)

From the Discussion Forums, reader Ensight has a particularly difficult to diagnose problem with Adobe InDesign he needs your help with:

If I place (Command-D) an ID3 document into my ID3 magazine layout and export a press quality PDF, the original 100% K becomes CMYK in the PDF. The result is blurry type in the final printed file.

If I open the same file, copy then paste the file into my ID3 layout then create the pdf exactly the same way, the 100% K stays at 100% K

Why ID3 treats black differently when placing or pasting seems absurd to me. Any input appreciated as replacing all my ads by copying/pasting will take a horrendous amount of time as well as losing the auto-updating which I use each month when ads are updated or changed.

Thanks

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It doesn't do that for me

Sun, 07/20/2008 - 06:43 — Roberto (not verified)

I can't figure this out. It doesn't convert for me. Maybe it has to do with the PDF?

PDF X1a

Mon, 07/21/2008 - 00:50 — Ensight

Is what I use to send to the web printer for the mag...

Color management.

Mon, 07/21/2008 - 05:46 — James

Color management is most likely the problem. When you cut and paste the objects, you're only cutting and pasting the objects themselves. When you PLACE the PDF, you're also importing the color profile the PDF document was created with, which may or may not be using the proper color profile.

When you export the PDF, make sure you use the same color profile as InDesign is set to use, or make sure they're turned off completely. In the Output tab of the export dialog, make sure you have the Color Conversion menu set to "preserve numbers."

Also, check your InDesign preferences to make sure you have the "Appearance of Black" setting set to display and output blacks accurately (both).

I'm not sure if that will fix your problem or not, but it's a start.

Color management.

Mon, 07/21/2008 - 21:21 — Ensight

I'm placing an InDesign ad file into my InDesign magazine layout then creating the pdf....

I may have found the solution....... will know tomorrow, jeez what a hassle... on deadline to boot

Keep us informed

Tue, 07/22/2008 - 05:50 — James

Please let us know if you've found a solution, and what it is.

No Go Joe.....

Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:55 — Ensight

Tried several different options and workarounds... to no avail.....

Made sure the same colour profile was used in both documents and all settings identical in each file.

Place= CMYK

Paste= 100% K

Baffled.......

One more thing to try

Wed, 07/23/2008 - 11:31 — James

Under the Edit menu, scroll down to the bottom and select Transparency Blend Space and choose Document CMYK.

The reason you need to do this is that the imported InDesign file you placed is technically a transparent object. If you happen to have this set to Document RGB, then it will convert the placed document to RGB when you export the PDF - which will result in a 4-color black when printed.

Maybe the problem is in the PDF preset

Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:30 — Filipe Alvarenga (not verified)

Maybe the problem is in the PDF preset you're using.
Try exporting it in PDF/X-1a:2001 instead os the Press quality PDF.

PDF/X-1a

Wed, 07/23/2008 - 15:59 — Ensight

I wrote Press Quality in my original post.... in fact X-1a is the one I use......

Color Swatches...

Thu, 07/24/2008 - 07:10 — Sean M. O'Grady (not verified)

I tried to recreate here, but my black when placed, came out 100% K. I did try something though. Are your black text set to Registration or is your Black swatch composed from RGB? Both Registration & RGB yielded a 4/C black for me when using [Press Quality] export.

Using ID default black in all cases

Thu, 07/24/2008 - 10:31 — Ensight

No settings on the black were changed....

I am going to create a new black (100% k) and see if it does it as well....

Black to CMYK Black

Fri, 07/25/2008 - 04:54 — Matt (not verified)

Just curious if maybe your ads have some color elements that were converted to black. I seen a lot of issues lately with art built in color in illustrator, then converted to grayscale. Complex vector areas seem to fail on output. I've been forced to rasterize these objects.

Pitstop will fix a multitude of sins. If you are slammed, get the 30-day trial and use that to get all your strokes and fills to Black.

Black to CMYK Black

Fri, 07/25/2008 - 12:13 — Ensight

ID file is text only with a small CMYK psd image....

I have just installed the 5.03 update and will now see if anything has changed

Stop the conversion of 100% K to rich black

Wed, 07/30/2008 - 11:23 — Mariella (not verified)

I had this problem once. InDesign changed 100%K to rich black (a mix of all 4 CMYK inks) in the text when exported to PDF. I found that by choosing "no color conversion" in the "Export to PDF" dialogue box, the CMYK numbers stayed the same.

(Another factor in my problem was I was printing the black text on top of a colored background, and the printers' RIP then put the whole mix of rich black inks on top of a solid color, without knocking out the background, adding up to too much ink, which got all mushy on press and blurred the text. Setting Black to not overprint helped that, but the real solution was "no color conversion.")

You can test the color values of the pdf before sending to the printer by opening the pdf in Photoshop and sampling the colors.